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its first fight over gun it is, the white house prepares to ramp up the pressure. i will talk to a connecticut congressman. first, topping political headlines, the senate passed a budget for the first time in four years. like the student these once were, they pull and all-nighter and wrapped up voting around 5 a.m. now, they head off on spring break for two weeks. but all is not necessarily well in the democratic dorm room there were four democratic senators who voted against the budget plan, all of whom are up for re-election and one, frank lautenberg from new jersey, he didn't vote at all. meanwhile, politico reporting senator tim johnson from south dakota not planning to run again in 2014. that puts yet another democratic seat in play. another notable democratic senator planning to step down, michigan's carl levin. yesterday on her facebook page, former governor jennifer granholm announced not to run for his seat. and the president is on his way home right now.

president obama spent four days in the middle east meeting with israeli, palestinian and jordanian leaders. his last stop to jordan's ancient city of petra, known to some as one of the seven wonders of the world. known to others as home to indiana jones' excellent adventures. president obama and his team are enroute, home from the middle east. but they left one member of their party behind. secretary of state john kerry. martin fletcher is live for must tel aviv with more. martin, good to see you, sir. who is kerry planning on meeting with? >> reporter: well, hi, craig. he is going to be seeing the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyau this evening, having dinner together. i guess if president obama's visit here to try to turn things around was step one in that attempt, step two is a visit now of the secretary of state john kerry. he is going to be meeting with the prime minister. he met earlier in the day in jordan with the palestinian leader, mahmoud abbas. his talks are all going to be about how it put into action what president obama talked about, which was a renewed peace

process between israeli and the palestinians. that's what his job is going to be. there is hope there will be serious negotiations in tweaks if the americans have their way. >> one of the key headlines from the trip is the diplomatic deal he broader between israel and turkey. how significant is this olive branch between the two countries? >> reporter: i think very significant, craig. very significant indeed. israel and turkey were very close partners, very close allies, economically, strategically and militarily, they ex-change a loft intelligence information about the region, which is very important at this critical time, but they fell out three years ago when israel killed nine turkish civilians on a boat that was allegedly on a humanitarian mission to gaza. turkey demanded an apology.

israel refused. now, american diplomacy succeeded in forcing -- or rather getting israel to do what it refused to do for years to apologize to turkey, to promise compensation for the families and also another turkish demand, to relieve the siege in gaza. so, israel said it would go toward turkey. and in return, turkey would resume diplomatic relations with israel, a significant thing indeed that the very significant, difficult time in the region. >> martin, before i let you go, just curious, how is president obama's trip receive there had? what are newspapers saying? what are folks on the street saying about the president's journey to the middle east? >> reporter: it was operation charm, wasn't it? the whole point was to get israelis to believe he linings them answered supports israel. you know, it worked. the newspapers were almost unanimous in saying what a great trip obama did. the people also -- his speech to the students in jerusalem, which he was really talking to the israeli people, really did

persuade people that he is sincere in his support for israel. wasn't clear beforehand. very significant and successful. not so successful after per swagd the palestinians he is on their side. the most important thing is to get israelis to believe him so he could pressure israel document road, asser can very here to do to begin a real peace process with the palestinians. very successful, craig. >> we will talk about the perceptions among the palestinians our next hour. our man in the middle east, martin fletcher in tel aviv for us. thanks for staying up, sir. >> thanks, craig. the president returns from the middle east later tonight, about 8:45 he is expected to land. early this morning, the senate passed a budget. with more on the news from all corners of the globe, bill schneider, and anna palmer of politico. bill, start with you. lots of questions ahead of president obama's trip to israel. how would he be able to smooth things over with prime minister

netanyahu? able to win over a skeptical israeli people? make an aggressive push for renewed peace talks? how successful was the trip, bill? >> he was very success envelope communicating his support for israel, particularly with the younger israelis. his message to them was israel cannot survive for much long we are the status quo. that's an important message because a lot of israelis believe they can go on like this a long time and the president said israel cannot remain a jewish and democratic state if things don't change. and he urged young israelis to pressure their government because he said politicians do not take risks unless there is public pressure for change. that was his key message. >> one thing that struck a lot of folks, the president's different stance and tone in regards to this trip. let's listen to remarks that president obama made in cairo in 2009 compared to remark he is gave in ramallah on thursday. take a look. >> this construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve

peace. it is time for these settlements to stop. how do we get a sovereignty for the palestinian people and assure security for the israeli people? that's not to say settlements are not important t is to say that if we some those two problems, the settlement problem will be solved. >> bill schneider that is a significant reversal what is behind that? >> he wants to get the peace talks started, the palestinians have essentially echoed the american position, which is they won't go to the table unless the settlement -- another moratorium on settlements, in which case nothing would happen there would be no progress. the president dropped that pressure. still criticizes the settlements but the palestinians have not quite drop it had themselves. they no longer feel they have an obligation to echo the demad. the palestinian side cannot be less demanding than the americans r >> anna, let's talk about what's happening back here. again, the senate finally passing a budget pet early this morning but all republicans voted against t and so did four

democrats, we should note here, worried about their own hopes for re-election. the chances of the senate budget being reconciled with the house budget the chances are slim to none, we know that. what did we learn from the budget debate? >> i think what you really saw was the senate actually kind of doing its work, i was in the capital yesterday, you don't often see right now. there is a lot of gridlock and this is a partisan document, obviously the talking points for what democrats want. but it also gives them something to compare to one of the biggest critiques from republicans the past four years, the past four year, senate democrats have not passed a budget. given them talking point what is their vision is for the future. >> the whole thing was really sort of a silly exercise, at times there were literally 500 amendments that were put up. again, we know that these budgets respect going to become law. so, why the exercise? what's the point? >> definitely this broke all

records for a vote a rama, what we call these extensive 13-hour-long debates, more than 100 amendments that were considered. but it's -- working the will of the senate, frankly. and it also, one of the things that's key we focus on is some of the amendments that did or didn't pass because they are going to be used in some of these elections in 2014 in terms of the keystone pipeline, for example. that amendment did pass. >> bill, anna brings up a significant point, a lot of folks who have been talking about this idea that the lion's share of what we saw unfold last night over on c-span, a lot of that was designed for campaign ads a lot was just for campaign commercials what does that say about the budget process? >> it is actually moving forward because the democrats have finally said they do support raising tax, only on the wealthy americans but esensely, what's changed, they didn't pass a budget for four years, any budget threat they passed would have included a tax increase and felt vulnerable in the campaign. well, president obama got re-elected by promising a tax increase on high-income

americans to reduce the deficit. so now, finally, senate democrats feel that they can go ahead and echo that position. that's change. >> an narc the president is expected to release the white house budget in april. what kind of compromises, if any, can we expect to see there? >> i think he is going to kind of come up and say the same things that he has been saying. we will look at the changes he will make to the entitlement program. the republicans saying they will not raise tax and what the democrats might do on entitlement reforms if they can find any kind of common ground that would be possible there. >> bill schneider, anna palmer, stick around. we would like to come back to you later in the hour, if that's okay with you. >> sure. >> thanks. could bill clinton be talking out of both sides of his mouth? the report that suggests escorting two candidates for the same office. we will talk about that. first though, kristen cinema

is here, very excited about being here. we just had a 15-minute conversation to make up. we can't talk about that. we can talk immigration, marriage equality and how her freshman year on capitol hill is going so far. come back. do we have a mower? no. a trimmer? no. we got nothing. we just bought our first house, we're on a budget. we're not ready for spring. well let's get you ready. very nice. you see these various colors. we got workshops every saturday. yes, maybe a little bit over here. this spring, take on more lawn for less. we can't talk about that. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get ortho home defense, we can't talk about that. t let's get a recap, merv. [ merv ] thanks, other merv. we can talk immigration, was three times faster on permanent marker. elsewhere against dirt, it was a sweep, with scuffed sports equipment... had it coming. grungy phones... oh! super dirty! and grimy car rims...

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when congress started its new session this january, it was out with the old and in with the new. 67 new members, to be exact. one of those democratic freshmen congresspeople, kirsten cinema from arizona, joins us a few days after being elected. we harassed her and harass herd and she finally gave in. and when we talked to her the first time i she was ready to talk immigration. >> congress has to come together and do this. the question is which members will have the moral courage to

come together and find that middle ground and find that compromise. i hope this incoming congress, the 1 13th congress, will be the one that takes that action. >> so a few short months later, is she seeing improvement or gridlock? congresswoman cinema is here. that is back in november. what have you learned so far? >> the good news is the train for immigration reform has not only left the station but barrellinging down the road. we are going to get it done this year. it's gonna happen. we have got a few still things we are working out, i feel very, very optimistic. >> what is it going to look like when it happens? >> three big things that will be addressed. the first is obviously border security. for many republicans, this is very, very important to them. >> you say border security, what are we talking about here? a lot of folks argue the borders are pretty secure around a lot more secure than they were a decade ago. >> you are right. the border much more secure than it was a decade ago. isn't quite true to say the boreders are completely secure. i love in arizona, i will tell you, there's lots and lots heavy

traffic of guns and drugs and people coming back and forth across the border, mostly led by criminal cartels. so, there will be some enhanced areas of border secure that crack down the criminal cartons. what's equally important, however, we provide a process for good people to come into the country legally so they are not caught up with the bad guys doing the bad stuff that means we have to figure out a new process to let people come into this country, take the jobs here waiting for them. a new visa process? >> that's exactly right. some of the change wes hear about changing the hib visa, the visa for highly skilled workers, changing that to a legal permanent res owner did green card, allows folks to move job, bring their families with them and keep that highly technical talent here in our country. >> there has been a bit of a rub for big labor and for big business as well. the u.s. chamber of commerce and the afl-cio they have expressed scepticism about some of the plans that have been floated f we can't get those guys on board, what happens to all of the immigration talk? >> we are going to go have to get them both on board.

the good news, for the first time ever, both the claim baernd the labor unions have come together with a joint statement saying we are going to get this done on the same page. there's still a lot of things to iron out. how do we deal with the unskilled visas hour do we deal with the agriculture visas hour do we deal with the zpleerms lots of stuff still in the works, i will tell you i feel more optimistic every day that we are getting there. there's still some things to be work out about how do we handle the people here, how do we get them into regular status that's going to be have to be solved before we pass the legislation. i feel pretty confident we will be very, very far ahead of this when we leave for the august break. >> the supreme court this week heard arguments on that arizona law that tries keep illegal immigrants from voting by demanding u.s. valid citizenship be shown by everyone who wants to go you challenged this law in the past. it was the obama administration. what are we expecting to hear from the court? >> the problem with the arizona law it has no impact whatsoever on immigrant bus it does have an impact on elderly folks, students, which is a big part of my community. i represent arizona state

university, the largest public university in the country. and it has a huge impact on native american pop 'tises. so our arguments to the court what have been, for many years it is okay for requiring i.d. but we have to make it flexible enough that people who are elderly, seniors, people who are disabled, student, that they can actually comply with the law. we feel that arizona's slaw too restrictive to allow, for instance, students to register. we think we will win. >> what was the motivation behind it? >> i can't really -- i can't really answer that i, of course, as you know, never question the motivation of other people. >> really? >> never. never question the motivation of other people. i can tell you what the effect has been. the effect is it makes it harder for student, seniors and elderly folks to vote. >> there is another issue relating to identification laws percolating in arizona right now, hasn't got an great deal of press. i do want to talk to you about t state representative john cavanaugh, i'm sure you heard about this. >> my former colleague. >> battled you in your days in the state assembly i wants to make it illegal for transgender

people to use restrooms or locker rooms that are not designated for the sex on their birth certificate. what's behind that and what are the chances that this becomes law in arizona? >> first, let me start with the good news you can it is not going to be called law, he pulled the bill out of considers this week because of public outcry that's good, good news. the bad news is where it's coming from. recently, the city of phoenix, i strongly supported this, passed a non-discrimination ordinance that just says that businesses and the government won't discriminate against people based on their disability or their sexual orientation or zwrender identity. that's good for business, good for our community. but some people started claiming if you passed this non-discrimination policy, then people will start going in each other's bathrooms. i know is going to come as a shock, but that's not actually big issue in arizona. never really been a problem. so, that's where this legislation came from. but the truth, it's a solution in search of a problem. so, we are hopefully seeing it dissipate and move away. >> the defense of marriage act,

you were one of the co-sigg natters to of the brief before the supreme court it comes before the high court next week, one of two -- one of two acts related to same-sex marriage. what do you foresee happening next with regards to those two things? >> i feel optimistic this is court is a court that denies expectation in a variety of areas. the defense of marriage act doesn't withstand constitutional muster. it says states are allowed to ignore certain parts of the full faith and credit clause while happenering other parts it just doesn't make sense on its faith. so i feel that from a pure legal perspective, we are definitely looking for a positives opinion to from the court. >> there are a number of options, positive opinion being one, negative opinion being the other, the group deciding the group doesn't even have standing to bring the case f it is not favorable for the signatories, then what? what's the next step? >> if the court decides that dome ma is indeed unconstitutional, as an attorney, i think that's difficult position to take, but

if it do i think the next step is for congress to continue to four withdraw -- to repeal the law, because, frankly, it doesn't make a lot of sense and creates headaches from a pure logistical perspective from state governments. off family legally married in iowa and move to arizona, how do they get a divorce if the family decides they have reconcilable differences? >> no divorces. >> right. because their mar arrange isn't recognized. so it really creates a lot of confusion for state governments, from am pure just logistical perspective. >> let's talk really quickly before i let you get out of here around make your flight, i tant want to talk to you about the tone in d.c. we played it clip of you right after the you had been elected. >> i was so cheerful. >> i was going to say you were bright eyed, on the mix. are you still as bright identify and optimistic or have the realities of the our nation's capit capitol, affected you at all? >> i started my state legislatilegislat

legislative experience as bright eyed and naive. now i'm bright eyed and pragmatic. i believe better days are always ahead in our country but very pragmatic. i realize we have challenges but i do believe we can overcome that. >> give me one example of an issue that you have become more pragmatic on versus six months ago? >> i don't know about six months. i been pragmatic for several years now, a long time now. >> you said you have become more practicing mat knick terms of dealing with washington? >> certainly over the last decade. the very fact of governing are causes you to become very pragmatic if you want to get things done. i will give you one great example. i'm lucky to be part of a new caucus called the united solutions caucus, 36 republicans and democrats, all freshmen, joined together to create a bipartisan caucus and we are interested in talking to leadership, actually putting you together a letter right now to ask leadership to meet with us, because we want to actually solve the problems. we don't want to just kick the can down the road for 90 days the a time but solve the problems our . xunt facial. something to be united about >> the united caucus? >> united solutions caucus.

>> come back and talk to us at some point when you have solutions? >> we have tons of solution, just looking for an audience. >> congresswoman kirsten sin ma, appreciate it. safe travels are. >> thank you. republican revenge, charlie crist's gop past could be coming back to haunt him. and will she or won't she? ashley judd drops another hint about her congressional ambitions. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. when the doctor told me that i could smoke

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according to a cincinnati tv station, judd said her mother, country star naomi judd, cannot wait to turn her garage into campaign headquarters. on bravo's "inside the actor studio," tina fey reviving her famed sarah palin impression. >> you know, jimmy, i believe that if everybody had guns, then there would be fewer guns in the stores. and florida might spurn favorite sons, senator marco rubio and former governor jeb bush for none other than hillary clinton in 2016. a quinnipiac university poll the other day found floridians would support the former secretary of state and first lady 52-42% over senator rubio and 51-40% over former governor bush. hmm. overwhelming american

support for gun background checks. so, why is that not translating into overwhelming support on capitol hill? i'll talk to congressman jim hines next. and great balls of fire. just what was that light that so many folks saw in the sky last night? we will talk about that, too. you're watching msnbc, the place for poll ticks. we're taking downy to the streets. which shirt feels more expensive? that one's softer. it's the same t-shirt. really? this one was washed in downy. why spend a lot of money when you can just use downy? downy's putting our money where our soft is. try downy softness. love it or your money back.

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the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ the latest victim of the southwester, air travel in the automatic spending cuts are causing the faa to trim its budget by about $637 million and transportation officials announced yesterday that means they will have to cut costs by closing 149 air traffic control towers across the country, mostly small and medium-sized towers. those closings will go into effect next month. again if mainly affecting small and medium-sized airports. i'm craig melvin, good saturday to you. a quick look at some of the top stories making news now.

new details afternoon about al qaeda operatives in mallism the french government says a powerful warlord with al qaeda ties was killed in come bat. he died during the french-led invasion of mali last month. french president francois holland says the death is an important step in the fight against terrorism. an historic meeting in italy today two popes in the same place at the same time. pope francis met with his predecessor, pope he emeritus pope benedict xvi this morning. the two prayed together before breaking lunch. back here it lit up the night sky. people all over the northeast saw a streak of bright light around 8:00 last night. nasa at this point says it looks like the flash was caused by a meteor. the senate maybe out for spring break but when it returns from vacation, there will be a showdown over gun reform. senators plan to take up a major gun bill in april.

this would be the first floor fight over tightening gun control laws since the newton, connecticut, shootings in december. congressman jim hypes is from connecticut. he joins me here in the studio this afternoon. it's good see you, sir. >> great to be here, craig. >> let's talk about what happened this week. senate majority leader harry reid demanded any bill on gun control include background checks on gun buyers. i want to put up a recent quinnipiac poll. university -- quinnipiac university poll shows 88% of americans support background checks, 10% do not. how much influence will the 88% have over lawmakers who are considering this new gun legislation? >> the unfortunate answer is they are not going to have as much influence as they should. polls like that one show what we know know to be true, which is the american public is a good deal more rational in common sense on gun safety than my fellow legislators r the nra and pro gun groups have been putting a ton of money and pressure on people. so you know, the issue of

universal background checks is terribly important. i do think it goes through but when we get into things like assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, i'm afraid the story is not quite so clear. >> senator reid says he wants these background checks in. he took the provision banning assault weapons out, essentially contradicting vice president biden. take a listen. >> even though restrictions on military-style weapons will not be part of the bill that goes the floor of the u.s. senate, it will get a vote by the false -- by the full senate as an amendment to the bill. and everyone's gonna have to stand up and say yea or nay and rest of us have to decide how we feel about people and their stands. >> new york mayor michael bloomberg there with vice president biden. how would voting on assault weapons ban that way accomplish i it? >> obviously not as good as having the assault weapons ban in the bill, a higher chance of

getting pestable but there is a controversial thing amongst my colleagues and senators than universal background checks. the leader is going to allow a vote the word is, and unfortunately, i think the betting is, that sault whip upon ban doesn't go through. but mike bloomberg is exactly right. nothing is over till it's over this is the moment for people who care about that to be advocating. >> i want to talk to you really quick before i let you get out here, the "new york times" editorial board this morning said negotiators would compromise on "background checks for all commercial and advertise sales, including those on the internet, along with seams at gun shows. that would cover most of the sales for which checks do not now take place. but it would leave out unadvertised person-to-person sale he is." if there's no universal require respect, how will the bill still have teeth? >> it won't. every individual in this country buys a firearm is not subject to a check, to just make sure that individual isn't a felon or has a history of violence, these, of

course, a loophole that will get people killed. so again, this is the moment for us to engage and to say if universal background check is to be helpful and meaningful and real, it has got to be truly universal. >> my representative in congress, jim himes, good to see you. >> thanks, craig. florida's ex-republican and former governor charlie could be poised for a comeback. politico reports the party-switching ex-republican governor's name had largely become a punchline in florida political circles, but he is now not only seriously pursuing new gubernatorial campaign, each day, new obstacles seem to almost miraculously fall out of his path. it's resurrection politics in the war room today. karen fin snail former communications director for the democratic national committee. also an msnbc political annist. keaton dawson is a republican strategist and former south carolina gop chair. good to see both of you on a saturday. >> hey there. >> good afternoon, craig. >> karen, how happen will be the

democrats be to have charlie crist in the race for governor? >> you know, look, i think the dynamics of the race in florida would be very interesting. you know, scott was, at one time thought, you know unbeatable and now he is having some trouble in the state. let's not forget in terms of the turnout, if crist does become the democratic nominee, the chances of his being able to pull out african-american, latino voters, remember, he doesn't even need to get the same numbers the president got during the presidential, but there is a cadre of voters there that he could pull out that there's no way scott, i think, could match. >> the incumbent, rick scott, he has had a bumpy ride, to say the least. he endorsed an expansion of medicaid in florida lieutenant governor resigned over a investigation into a charity that she was involved with. his poll numbers are at hist toreric lows. what would a scott versus crist campaign battle look like?oric lows. what would a scott versus crist campaign battle look like? >> car thatly crist doesn't have

much of a political core, as we know. moved back and forth, changed positions. rick scott, he's competitor and i think -- >> is that the line you guys are going to go with charlie crist has no core? >> she agrees. we remember when they complained when he was a republican governor. so again, that's florida. it's a competitive place. rick scott's got time to rehabilitate his numbers. but there's a hurdle there. and you are right. the president just won florida. we had an all-out contest there. so, we will see. we will see exactly how tolerant the florida voters r >> speaking of tolerance and keeping with the resurrection theme here, let's turn to south carolina -- south carolina's former governor, mark sanford. some conservatives don't seem to be convinced sanford can whip against a democrat, fess the republican nominee to fill that vacant house seat. john fun writing in the right-leaping national review you "the other problem sanford will have is that many believe he could lose the seat to a

democrat, especially a business-oriented woman, such as elizabeth colbert busch. her platform is pitched perfectly toward moderates." karen, she is fiscally conservative. she is a moderate without baggage. she talks about protecting retirement benefits, talks about an expansion of engineering and science education, talks about reducing the deficit by eliminate willing waste. how concerned should the gop be about mark sanford's ability to win in the palmetto state now? >> i think they should be very concerned. she is a very impressive candidate in her own right. take away who her brother might or might nop not be or is. take away the baggage that mark sanford has, she is an impressive candidate on her own. an important point to make. that being said, it is likely that sanford will have challenges with women voters in a general election.

newt gingrich won the primary. >> what are you trying to imply about our state? >> any time we predict what voters can do they go and do the exact opposite. >> especially in south carolina. >> exactly. no question. my point is even with all the things we are talking about, a tough race for sanford, she is such a strong candidate answered does have real baggage to deal w >> katon, you were quoted in politico, it looks to me like governor sanford has a tough hill to climb, not getting 40% have to convince people who didn't vote for him and those are very motivated republican primary votes who won't come out to the polls, i think the long knives will be out. those are your words. >> they are. and it's true. this is south carolina. and welcome back. he is running against a guy named curtis bostic, former united states marine, not a shrinking v shrinki

shrinking violet. this race suspect over yet. >> you think there is a chance sanford loses this thing in the runoff? >> i do. i mean, he is likely that he can win, but i'm not going to wholesale out curtis bostic's chances to win because jim demint came in second in his primary to former governor davids belism tom rice came in second in his primary to former lieutenant governor, andre bauer. our history is that second place position is not a bad place to be, especially with a low turnout model. so i'm not going to wholesale and move on to the general elechblgs i tell you that is a river of red down there, where romney won that district by 18%. so -- >> a river of red? >> a great candidate. but at the end of the day. we are going to find out whether that moral comp nas got high wire, all right republican party around base continue to overlook that?

>> i can't think of a democratic candidate who had the nerve to go ask his ex-wife to run his campaign. >> that's true. that's different kind of gutsy. i'm saying gutsy, because i'm on cable in the afternoon. not premium. a different kind of gutsy. >> the democratic candidate contributed to mark sanford in the past. this is really going to be a dicy one if he is successful next tuesday a week. >> stay in the south here for second. kentuckiens in the spotlight once again. this week, senator rand paul's rise to gop fame and of course, ashley judd. according to abc news here, judd apparently has the support of former president bill clinton. and news reported friday that bill clinton encouraged judd to e he were the race and promised he would help her. the report said former president clinton is also encouraged kentucky secretary of state allison grimes to get into the

race as well. >> right. >> why -- first of all, why is bill clinton so interested in this race and why would he be encouraging a cat fight? >> it is my understanding, i hope you didn't say cat fight because it's two women. it is my understanding that this happened -- >> wildcats. kentucky wildcats. >> different times actually. initially, a conversation with ashley judd i think some time ago and then only recently with the secretary of state. and look, i think any -- if you are a person who believes in having a strong party and a deep bench, you want to try to encourage as many good people to think about it because, look, the likelihood is both of them might -- will not likely run. why not encourage good people to think about it? and particularly women. it is very hard to get women to run for statewide office. so i think it's -- i don't think it's a problem to have such an embarrassment of riches. i would also just remind you that the clintons have sort of family connections, both to, you know, history there with the

actress ashley judd but then also with the secretary of state's family as well. >> you buried the lead there until the end. karen finney, always good to see you. katon dawson, keep holding it down in the palmetto state, sir. >> absolutely. republicans are clamoring for the doctor in the house. ben carson's future in the gop. we will talk about that. plus -- >> [ speaking hebrew ] you are not alone. >> that historic trip for president obama, it wraps up today. we will go back live to the middle east for what it all means. we will also go live to cyprus as well, where politicians are racing to come up with a plan to keep that country from going broke. don't go anywhere. this is msnbc. [ slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn.

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these one of the measures the government of cyprus is considering to avoid a financial collapse that government right now is racing to finish a plan that would raise more money to qualify for a bailout from the european union monday. meanwhile, folks there continue to line up to withdraw cash from atms. it's a tiny island country in the mediterranean but if it folds, many worry that the ripple affects could lead to a tidal wave. michelle caruso-cabrera is there for us on this saturday. michelle, what happened there today? >> reporter: craig, behind the scenes, politician and bureaucrats and central bankers working feverishly to come up with a plan to make cyprus' two largest and very sick banks much, much small other is they are less costly to operate and other european taxpayers don't get stuck with another bill to bail out a big bank. however, because those banks are gonna get smaller, that's what led to thousands of bank employees taking to the streets today to protest those plans.

they are angry that they have seen other european country bailed out with lots of money and they don't understand why the other european countries don't want to do that for them as well. other europeans think cyprus is a place where money laundering happens, particularly for wealthy russians. because it has been a near state of financial collapse for the bank, people have been closed all week, people limited taking money out of atms, now even the amount you can withdraw is limited, some are running out, the lines terribly wrong and now talk from the head of the sup supermarket association that maybe even supermarkets might start running out of food because they don't have the cash to pay suppliers who are demanding cash up front. deadline, like you said, craig is mon. >> dave new wrinkle there michelle caruso-cabrera from cyprus. thank you. is he the great right hope? we are going to introduce doubt doc who just mayble the right prescription for the gop. there's nothing better than salon color,

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if god has other plans for me, he certainly will manifest though i don't expect that to happen any time in the near future, a long time before the next election. it is not my intention to do that, but what i've said is if a year and a half goes by and people are still clamoring for me to do that and there's no other very good candidates, i would certainly is to seriously consider it. >> who is that on the verge of a run for president perhaps? none other than ben carson, the latest new face to generate excitement among republicans. he is also, of course, a well-known neurosurgeon who became famous for performing surgeries to separate co-joined twins. not your usual rising republican star. dr. carson's autobiography was even turned into a made-for-tv

movie called "gifted hands" which starred cuba gooding jr. with me, bill schneider, also a doctor, not the medical kind, a political scientist with the third tank -- think tank third way. and anna palmer of politico as well. let me start with you. dr. carson, credibility as a medical doctor, outspoken in his opposition to obama care, saying the affordable care action should either be defunded or drastically changed. what would make him a viable candidate for higher office? >> he certainly has that great personal story, rising from detroit and poverty and kind of pulling himselves up. he has done a lot of things in terms of raising his profile. it is hard for me to see how he could actually make a jump to, you know, the presidential race, for example, in terms of raising money and things like that? >> at this point, bill, should democrats be at all concerned about dr. carson? >> there is the chance the

republicans will pluck someone from relative obscurity. he is an outsider. americans like outsiders. the problem is republicans don't usually do that. democrats do that democrats look to jimmy carter, very obscure. bill clinton was obscure. so was barack obama. because americans love outsiders. republicans almost always nominate someone who has run before, like bob dole or john mccain or mitt romney. the person whose turn it is. up likely, republicans will do this. >> michele bachmann criticized the president for living a "lavish lifestyle" last week. take a listen to what michele bachmann said. >> let's repeal this failure before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. let's not do that. let's love people. let's care about people.

let's repeal it now while we can. >> she is talking about the health care bill there, but she went on and on to say some other things that were terribly untrue. bill, why don't folks inside the gop shout down michele bachmann's craziness? >> because they have a lot of constituents who agree with her and who believe her. in fact, what she is doing is damaging the conservatives' credibility, that they are willing to say anything. she criticized the president what she called his lavish lifestyle. no different than any other president. his budget is different from president bush's. they are willing to onto any criticism to try to destroy someone they regard as their enemy. really hurts their credibility. >> michele bachmann has a record of saying things she has to know aren't true. and fact checking organizations frequently call her out on that why does she continue to say them? what is the motivation?

help me understand. >> part of this is the fact she was unpopular in her last election, only one by 1% of the vote, a house member incumbent, stark numbers. something, too that i think people like us are talking about it. she gets a lot of momentum in terms to of the right wing and her real deep followers who believe that obama care is bad. >> bill schneider, anna palmer, thanks to both of you. what moved vice president biden to curse inside the white house? key anniversary. we will bring that you moment with the bleep. we will go live to ramallah, jerusalem, tel aviv and d.c. go live to all those places to assess president obama's historic trip to the middle east. t than ordinary sweat. it smells worse, and it can happen any time -- to anyone! like when i fell asleep at movie night with all my co-workers and i totally dream-snorted myself awake. i actually popped my head back so fast, i'm pretty sure i have whiplash. oh my go... [ female announcer ] stress sweat can happen to anyone, anytime, and it smells worse than ordinary sweat.

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can good saturday afternoon, i am craig mel environment you are watching msnbc. the place for politics. the senate speaks on the key step pipeline a decision from the president is expected soon. we thought it would be a good time to separate fact from

fiction on that. a wrap on obama's trip to the middle east. what he acokofrcomp -- accompli. 98 days since newtown and more than 2200 dead. now a branch of the nra is fighting the first gun law passed after that school shooting. let's start with our top political headlines this hour. late yesterday, caitlin hall began withdrew her nomination to a federal appeals court, handing a victory to republicans in the senate who twice blocked the president's pick for the key judicial post h president obama said in a statement, "i am deeply disappointed that even after nearly two and a half years, a minority of senators continue to block a simple up or down vote on her nomination." the democratically led senate rejected paul ryan's budget this week and passed its own in the wee hours of the morning. today, republicans are fighting back. here is mike lee in the republican weekly address.

we believe the president should work with congress to identify and remove wasteful areas in the budget. unfortunately, the president's strategies instead to cut spoengd important services, like border security, first responders veterans and law enforcement. getting back to town later tonight but the president might be hitting the road again soon. there are reports that president obama wants to leave the white house to talk stronger gun control laws, which he talked about in his weekly address. >> today, there's still genuine disagreement among well-meaning people what steps we should take to reduce the epidemic of gun violence in this country. but you, the american people, have spoken. you have made it clear that it's time to do something. >> when congress comes back, they will tackle two of the most contentious issues, the budget and gun violence. erroll lewis the political anchor of new york one news and jonathan allen, senior

washington correspondent for politico. good to see both of you. jonathan, let start with you. the senate's marathon vote-a-rama, thaerz called, resulted in a budget, the first one that passed that body in four years but as democratic senator tom harkin put it to the "new york times," "we all know this will come to naught. the house will pass a budget, we will pass a budget and we will never agree on it." . why does the senate agree with the charade? >> i'm glad you used the word shar raid. in the senate, 100 votes, most of them there a member of the senate can go home and tell his folks, boy, i brought up this amendment, i'm really working hard for you or even more so that the two party committees can hammer various senators for the votes they take. that said there is one important thing that comes out of these two budgets. that is because both chambers passed a budget wet reconciliation instructions,

very technical if they are able to come to a budget deal at some point with the white house filibuster proof in the senate. all the policy they are talking about on the floor of each chamber, totally irrelevant. >> 500 amends our lawmakers were talking about at 1, 2, 3 a.m., amendment regulations to limit the utah prairie dog. ins acan a federal court ruling was not enough, senator ted cruz from texas, republican, make sure that money would be there to prevent the regulation of the size and quantity of food and

beverage. how does this sort of sideshow, how does it look to john q. six pack? >> john q. six pack is really not -- a lot of them are watching now. they will be informed about t but the reality is most people really don't know about this, most people aren't following it certainly not at 2 or 3:00 in the morning. exactly what was appointed with john than is what is going to happen. when they've little bit more engagement with their senator or their member of congress, they are going to say i protected the prairie dogs, i stopped them from reck lating large-sized drinks or whatever kind of foolishness the member wants to talk about. and these one-house bills that aren't going to go any where aren't going to make it into the budget, aren't going to change anything, part of the political currency, the political debate. in the defense of lawmakers, there are some items that, you know, they do want their constituents to know that i at least tried. i went and i did what i could for you on this one very narrow issue that might -- in some case, be a way of educating

people that you can't get everything you want out of congress. >> i want to pay for the gun violence now, continues to capture the attention of this country. we just pulled some random headlines from around the country, just the past three days. marine at quantico fatally shoots two colleagues before killingself, tom collegements, police arrest two teens in georgia baby shooting we have been following for two hours. how presents is gun violence in our every day live you >> all too prevalent. this is, in some ways, health care reform. remember all this talk about how, you know, 44 million who don't have health insurance, there's 260 nal do. you can't get through the day if you file like you might get shot on the way to work or the corner store. most people do what we here in

new york city do, try to be prudent, stay safe, do what makes sense for us, only when you hear about a horrific case our see some really horrific headlines and/or statistics that it comes back to you, you say, gee, we need to do something about it supposed to make newtown different. supposed to be the horror of all horrors, a situation nobody can look away from and go back into their protective shell and live their life from day to day. you know, it turns out, in fact that has not been the case, several months down the road. >> jonathan, the president is apparently going to hit the road once again to press for gun reform. buzz feed reporting a white house official would not comment on the timing of more presidential travel but said that people should expect to see president obama travel outside d.c. to bolster his insistence that gun control measures deserve a vote in congress. what more can the mt. do to bring pressure to bear on

lawmaker to us move his gun reforms through, or something he hasn't already done? >> i think perhaps some sort of campaign. really the i shall with the public they try to reach, they disagree with him or isn't enough of an issue for them to make it part of their daily lives, make it part of the thing they are doing when talking to their elected officials. we see the polling, the polling clearly is on the president's side on a variety of issues being left out of gun control bills, talking about limited clip capacity, assault weapons bans, talking about background checks, although they will be in the senate bill. he has got the public's opinion on his side, but nobody's really moving their legislators to do anything about it, to the extent that they do agree with them. of course, those that don't agree with them, i don't think they are going to change their mind because the president's talking to them. if newtown didn't change their minds, certainly speeches by president obama aren't going to. >> i want to talk to you about snag happens here in new york

city, erroll, codified by law in new york city the stop and frisk thing. new york police officers testified this week in a federal trial challenging the city's stop and frisk policy. the court played some conversationless which really got my attention. i want to share them with our audience. conversations with new york police department's deputy inspector, christopher mccormick in the middle of a contentious conversation with the officer who recorded it, pedro serrano. take a listen. >> how damning are those types nypd's contention that stop and friis sex not essentially racial profile? >> the court of public opinion it is quite damning much the

trial not taking place on the street are taking plays this a court of law, how they will interpret it who knows, we will find out at the end of the trial. they have documented now, i think what so many have said, which is that there's an overreliance and this vague area, frankly, that tape doesn't really sell you definitively one way or the other. there's always these ambiguous situations, every day, every street corner, every city in the country, a cop has to make a decision, do i stop this guy or i do not, is he doing something suspicious, could be a criminal, match the profile of snag might have happened and they have to make a judgment call. to make things harder it is the beat cop, the person with the least experience. this is somebody argue his superior, senate station house it is the cop going on out on the beat. they have to make the tough judgment. the fact it happened 600, 700,000 times in the past year, they complained about whatever

the tack talk to is being overused and abused. >> erroll louis and jonathan allen, stick around. i want to bring you back in the hour if that is okay with you. >> thanks, craig. switching gears here, a rare high-level meeting in rome this morning. pope francis made an historic house call to pope benedict xvi at castle began doll foe. the only time in current history the former pope and current pope are meeting. claudio is in rome for us now the first time we are seeing former pope benedict after he left the vatican on february 28th. what is the significance of this meeting? >> reporter: craig, this is a meeting of huge significance, because in a way, it seals the transition from the pain pass so i have benedict xvi to the one of pope francis. let me tell you, on february 11, when pope benedict xvi announced his resignation ant vet can

said, still be addressed as pope emeritus still be wearing white i still answer dressed as your holiness, there were fears that it would create a lot of confusion within the vatican walls where both popes eventually will be living. so, this meeting, in a way, shows them for the first and last time probably, together. it shows that both of them know where their place s of course as it happens usually in the vatican and with the catholic church, there's a lot of importance in the small gestures. for instance, pope benedict xvi, even though he looked very frail, he went all the way to the helipad to wait and welcome pope francis, who arrived with a white helicopter, which is, of course, reserved for the popes. pope francis was sitting on the right, the seat reserved for the pope. then they went to the private chapel to pray together and pope benedict xvi said, well, you know, pope francis this is yours, the kneeler which is reserved for the popes, please pray the altar for us. he said, no, we are brothers and we are going to pray together.

pope francis said, a grand gesture of gratitude from pope francis. now, that seals the transition that started from february 11th, meaning upon his return here to the vatican, while there's no dispute on hot real pope is, of course, pope francis and pope benedict xvi when he will eventually retire in that monastery, already pledged obedience and reverence to the pope anyway. craig? >> powerful pictures and claudio, thank you so much for breaking down what is an unprecedented dynamic. claudio from role, italy, for us. the senate speaks on the keystone pipeline what it means and what it does not mean. jury n you are not alone. >> a complete analysis of president obama's historic trip. we will go back live to the middle east for more on that this is msnbc, the place for poll ticks. itics.

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measure approving the keystone pipeline passed friday night in the senate. it was largely symbolic since president obama will essentially have the final say, but it is the latest punch thrown in what's become a knock down, drag out fight over the project. the keystone pipeline would take oil from canadian oil fills through three u.s. states. you can see them right there, that oil would then filter existing pipelines to the texas gulf coast. building the pipeline is a major issue with climate change activists. last month, thousands marched outside the white house to protest the plans. now, an army of 50,000 environmentalists say they are ready and willing to get arrested if president obama okays the pipeline. a decision is expected very soon. so we wanted to take a reality

check of the keystone pipeline project. juliet halperin, "washington post" white house reporter, we should note, formerly the papers a environmental reporter. thank you for coming on. transcanned cannes nada, the company submitted a revised plan to the state department last year, now the new pipeline will cross three states instead of 5, 500 miles shorter, oil will move through existing pipelines to the texas gulf coast that did not make the project any less controversial for a lot of folks. why is the pine lipeline so contentious? >> one is its climate impact. as you mentioned before, this is talking about extracting heavy crude from alberta where there are something called oil sands or tar sand, if you're opposed to it which is a particularly carbon-intense process. and so, what you are talking about is a major reservoir of oil and this would make it

easier to tap that oil. so, that's one of the transis controversial. the second is that it does still go through the american heartland and a lot of concern about a potential spill, both because oil spills are damaging to begin with and because this is a particular kind of oil made from bitumen, it is harder to clean up. there is a concern what the environmental impact would be should it spill into -- from the pipeline. >> robert redford is one of the prominent environmental activists aing at how pipeline should not happen, writing on the huffington post he said "those of us against this thing believe this is a bad deal for america and it will make climate change considerably worse faster. it will be the third new tar sands dedicated pipeline, which will locks into a dependence on this destructive, dirty source for years to come. "how destructive and how dirty are these tar sands, these oil sands? >> well, they are more intense in terms of their greenhouse gas emissions, while there's a debate, you know, there's

basically a lot of debate about what their ultimate impact s you are certainly talking about for example there are 10% more carbon intense than regular crude, light crude that you would get from places in, for example, in the united states. what robert redford and other climate activists are saying you are lock nothing this climate infrastructure for decades 30, 40 years, it is a financial commitment the united states would be making to explore this area and so that is one of the reasons they are so upset about t >> supporters to of the pipeline project say the project will bring jobs, also help cut our dependence on overseas oil and project that it will have little impact on the environment. fareed zack care ya, for instance, writing on time.com, stopping keystone might make us feel good, but it really wouldn't do anything about climate change." what do we know about the affect on climate change and the number of jobs created? >> on the jobs front that is

something fairly easy to answer. when you luke at what transcanada told the state department, it is something like 3500 construction jobs for two years. so you know, you have that, so, 7,000 jobs roughlism in addition to that you have say 35 permanent jobs to operate the pipeline that is straightforward. what is less straightforward is the second question you ask. would the oil sands be developed any the way. if you state department conducted a statement which said knic nixing this project wouldn't affect the development of the oil sands, either shipped by rail or that other projects will come along to ship it. so, that is really one of the issues to watch in the next several months as some environmentalists challenge that analysis and we see what the state department and others ultimately conclude. >> thomas freedman in the "new york times" say it is the president does aproof the plan, environmentalists will want him to get something at least in

runs, he writes in part, "we need the president to say to the gop oil lobby i'm going to approve this, but it will kill me with my base. sasha and malia won't be talking to me so i've got to get something big in return." >> it is hard to anticipate him doing this at the same time as a making a decision on the keystone permit, push ahead with regulating keystone gas emissions from power plants in the united states. everyone agrees that will have a huge impact on carbon emissions in this country. the biggs source of carbon emissions now, he could adopt that and add to his climate legacy. >> from the "washington post," thank you so much for your insight. we do appreciate it. >> thank you. [ bleep ] >> oh, we all remember that up next, what happened on this day

in history. the vice president biden called a big deal. i'm not gonna say that word. try to do to me. watching msnbc. your place for really big politics. we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice. ♪ i don't wanna be right [ record scratch ] what?! it's not bad for you. it just tastes that way. [ female announcer ] honey nut cheerios cereal -- heart-healthy, whole grain oats. you can't go wrong loving it. heart-healthy, whole grain oats. you know it can be hard to lbreathe, and how that feels.e, copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms by keeping my airways open for 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both.

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for our free usaa retirement guide, call 877-242-usaa. could live secure in the knowledge that their security did not rest upon the threat of instant u.s. retaliation to deter a soviet attack that we could intercept and destroy strategic ballistic missiles before they rifrpd own soil or that of our allies. >> that president ronald reagan on this day in 1983 proposing what would soon be become known as star wars. last week, defense secretary chuck hagel announced that the united states would increase its number of anti-missile intercepters along the pacific coast in response to north ko a korea's aggressive bluster and nuclear threats.

get into the signing ceremony, quite the uphill battle. sure you remember there were delays, tusks dea delays, talks of death panels, this held by the late senator arlen specter. tea partiers chanted kill the bill, but despite fierce partisan opposition, on march 21, 2010, the senate passed its version of the affordable care act and the following day, a vers are passed in the house, without a single republican vote. here was vice president biden's sentiment as the president signed it into law three years ago. >> [ bleep ] >> and here's what president obama said. >> today, after a year of debate, today, after all the

votes have been tallied, health insurance reform becomes law in the united states of america. >> several states challenged the law but the supreme court upheld it and obama care is the law of the land. we are going to dig further near how this law has defined president obama's legacy a little bit later on in our brain trust. up next though, two teenagers arrested after a baby is shot and killed in his stroller. what police are saying about a possible motive. the president is headed back to washington after his trip to the middle east. what did he accomplish there? we will have a panel from the middle east and beyond with full analysis. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. [ female announcer ] it balances you... it fills you with energy... and it gives you what you are looking for to live a more natural life. in a convenient two bar pack. this is nature valley. nature at its most delicious. this is nature valley. ♪

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two georgia teenagers have been charged with first-degree murder in connection with a tragic shooting that left a 13-month-old baby dead this week. police say 17-year-old demarquis elk and unnamed 14-year-old shot

the baby in his stroller. they were allegedly trying to rob the baby's mother. she was injured in that shooting. i'm craig melvin. other top stories making news now. the governor of colorado is talking about the killing of his state's prison chief. governor hickenlooper says he is friends with jack ebbles and jackson evan is the one suspected of killing the corrections officer, tom clements. evans died last week after a chase and shootout with police in texas. a rare sighting on the east coast this weekend a bright light flashed across the night sky about 8:00 last night. nasa says at this point, it looks like that flash was caused by a meteor. and folks, have you bought your ticket yet in the powerball jackpot is now at $320 million and it is expected to keep getting bigger as people keep buying tickets. no one won the big prize wednesday night and there is another drawing tonight.

president obama's middle east trip was a busy historic few days. throughout the trip, president obama and prime minister benjamin netanyahu worked to e project a unified front on issues like syria, like the israeli/palestinian peace agreement as well. mr. obama's first journey to israel as president, first foreign trip in his second term started with a warm greeting wednesday. meanwhile, in ramallah thursday, the president criticized israeli settlement activity on the west bank and then a news conference with palestinian president, mahmoud abbas, president obama urged the palestinians to renew the peace talks n a televised address the president did his best to appeal to youngsomes to change the ways of the past and

work toward creating an independent and viable palestine. i want to bring in nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv from ramallah on the west bank. diane know bhutto, negotiator for the palestinian lib rainian organization. mark reg give, chief spokesman for prime minister benjamin netanyahu and in washington, ambassador dennis ross, former middle east envoy for president obama. good to see all of you. thanks so much for being here with us. mark, i want to start with us, israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, apologized to turkey friday for that deadly raid on a turkish ship back in 2010. was that call a direct call as a result of president obama's visit and what does it mean for

israel/turkish relations. >> president obama helped us get there the last bit is always a challenge and he was -- we thank him for his help. >> i stand here today mindful that for both our organizations, these are some complicated times. we have difficult issues to work through within our own countries and face dangers and upheaval

around the world. >> martin, how was president obama received by the israelis? >> very well, craig. prepare them for the peace process for the israelis, the road ahead. when he spoke to these students in the hall, you know, he was greeted with much more applause than anybody really expected, including several standing ovations. the newspaper reports afterwards were unanimous saying he made a great impression but everyone now is looking a what the does this mean really, practically speaking? what is the next step on the ground? now secretary of state john kerry is in town, meeting with the israeli prime minister, trying to get israel and the palestinians to the table, to the peace talks table. that's what israelis are looking for. he sounded good, said all the

right things, what happens next? that is the question israelis and palestinians are asking now. craig? >> diana, that's the view from the israelis. what was the view from the palestinians' perspective of the president's visit? >> we were expecting that a president who has given billions of u.s. dollars to israel that he would have come with a message telling the israelis that it is time to completely stop their settlement activity and if they don't stop their settlement activity urge the u.s. dollars no longer going to flow to israel. he didn't do that. he talked about resuming negotiations as settlement activity continues, goes against hist u.s. policy, his own policy, in the end, palestinians left wondering what it is that he intends to do. instead, he spoke very nicely to the israelis but in terms of what he gave the palestinians, it was absolutely nothing.

>> mark, let's talk about president obama's change of tone and change of position on the settlements. what we heard from president obama back in 2009 regarding settlements and what we heard this week from president obama regarding settlements being a precondition to returning the peace talks, it was different. >> look, it's fair, you're right there have been historical differences, not just between this administration and my government today but over a period of years there's been differences between washington and jerusalem on the issue of settlements, but what we do agree on is this issue has to be solved between israelis and palestinians around the negotiating table. that's where the final status of the settlements will be determined, which ones will be on the israeli side of the frontier, which ones will be on the palestinian side of the frontier. that's clear. and what we have to do is try to restart the peace process and that's the only way forward, to have direct talks between israelis and palestinians. now, i hope that that will be

possible soon. we're ready. we have been continuously ready to start peace talks without precontinues. i hope the palestinians will now come to the table. >> how much was soften the ground for secretary of state john kerry? >> i think a major part of the trip was designed to create a basis for find wag forward and in a sense, putting the secretary of state in a position where he can pick up the responsibility here and see what can be done. the president had a public dimension to the trip and private dim men together trip. by not raising the expectations in advance, he was able to have i think, serious discussions in private with the prime minister but i think also had serious discussions with president abbas as well and the fact is, you know, the right way to move forward at this point is to try to find out what are the right points of commonality i have the secretary of state begin to see if he can build a basis on which

to move ahead, see if you can find ways to begin to restore belief between the two sides. each side questions fundamentally the commission to the other to a two-state outcome. you have to find way to restore belief, a way to find a right basis in which to pursue negotiations, you have to find a way to demonstrate that something is going to be different this time. we are in the 20th year of oslo. if you simply resume negotiations and looks like a repeat of what we have seen in the past, all dowel is deep than disbelief. i think the president's conversations in private were very much designed to sort of see, all right, what can we do to move forward and now let's have the secretary of state try to build on that. >> martin, you mentioned this earlier earlier. the president's speech to the students and how it seemed to be received there talk to me about the generational divide among israelis on matters of palestine specifically. >> um, i will do that craig, but

can i just quickly respond to something that diane just mentioned, saying that the palestinians got nothing at all. the palestinians do feel frustrated. they feel they got nothing but i think one has to point out that within the last few hours, america has unblocked half a billion dollars of aid to the palestinians. so, that money, half a billion dollars, will begin flowing from america very soon to the palestinians. so i guess that's quite a lot. they certainly need it at this very difficult time. as for your yet generational divide among israelis toward the peace process with the palestinians, you know, it's very difficult to judge that, because the young audience in -- that obama was speaking to was applauding every time he mentioned that israeli needed a compromise and needed to support a palestinian state, the young israelis applauded. that was a carefully selected audience of young people who mostly were going to applaud if obama said that. so, they speak for a certain part of the young generation of israelis. most young israelis is, all the

opinion polls show much more right wing than that audience was, i think one thing is clear to me that regard rolls of the generation are young or old, clear to me two-thirds of israelis would support almost any peace deal that was on the table, because they have had it up to here with the conflict. by the way, i also believe about two-thirds of the palestinians would agree, too. >> martin took me to the point i was going to make here in a few moment, the president's lease of the $500 million in aid to the palestinians. what will that mean for conditions on the west bank? will it have any impact on gaza? >> let me be clear. this is money that was sent to the -- that was supposed to have been sent to the palestinians more than two years ago. this is not new money. and at the same time, while the u.s. is giving $500 million that was pledged two years ago to the palestinian authority, it still continues to give $3 billion to israel if the in the form of military assistance and military

equipment. so, this is not a question of us getting more than -- or getting anything out of this trip. now will it make a difference for gaza? probably not, because there has been no money that has been sent to the gaza strip. again, this is not a question of palestinians wanting money. what we want is we want our freedom more than we want any money, more than we need any money. the question is how you is that going to happen? i was expecting to hear a president who was going to come up with something new. we have tried negotiations. negotiations failed. they went on for 20 years. and what israel wants to do now is simply have the guise of being able to talk, at the same time eating up all of palestinian's land. israel's sentiments are illegal, everybody knows that it is time for israel to completely withdraw from the west bank and allow palestinians to live freely in the west bank, east jerusalem and the gaza strip, otherwise, we are going to be facing a situation in which it is one person, one vote, one

state. >> mark, let's talk about the prospects for peace here. i know we have been talking about this ad nauseam, especially over the last few days, but the sentiments that were just expressed there are the sentiments that are generally expressed by that many palestinians. what say you to that, based on what we just heard, what can we say about the prospects for a two-state solution? >> at this very moment, as martin reported, my prime minister, benjamin netanyahu is meeting with secretary of state john kerry to try to get the process moving again and i hope it's possible. if i can respond to something diana said, the whole idea that israel just pulled out and hoped for the best we laid to in gaza, we pulled down, all down all the sell thements, the settlers that didn't leave, we forced them to leave and what happened? did we get peace? hundreds of rockets by israelis into gaza on civilians in the middle of visit of president obama we had rocket he is from

gas zone israel. the idea that we should just somehow pull out of the west bank and hope for the best, that's not an option. we are ready to move forward in a process of peace, a process of reconciliation where palestinians finally recognize the legit mass soift jew win state and of course with security guarantees to make sure if we pull out again, we are not going to be attacked from areas we pull out of. we want a process and the palestinian wes hope will come to the table and just as they expect us to deal with our -- their concerns and we are willing to deal with their concerns, surely palestinians have to deal with very real concern he is. >> dennis, just really quickly, i did want to talk about syria really quickly, the president spent some time talking about the threat from the violence in syria. take a yquick listen to what president obama said about syria. >> not just israel that's threatened. it is a whole range of people that could be threatened. we are talking right now about the possibility of syria using chemical weapons. what would be the covertion if syria possessed nuclear weapons?

>> what are the viable options for the united states and syria, sir? >> we will have to find ways to change the balance of power, at least from the opposition forces. secretary kerry made it clear we favor or don't oppose those providing assistance to the lethal operation, i think we will end up having to provide lethal assistance as well. i think we will need to do much more in terms of helping to protect the syrian population, which is being increasingly displaced. i think also, we are going to have to think about what are the ways we can contain this conflict in the problem in syria this is a conflict that will not stay within syria it doesn't only destabilize and create a humanitarian catastrophe in syria, threatens to destabilize the neighbors, one of the reasons you have seen the president provide $200 million to jordan, given all the syrian refugees in there. >> thanks to all four of you for spending so much time with us on this saturday.

>> thank you. lgbt and the gop, with public sentiment shifting, are republican reasons really evolving on gay marriage? these coming up. stay with us. [ female announcer ] are you really getting salon quality... or settling for wannabes? stop compromising! new vidal sassoon pro series. care and styling from the original salon genius, created to let you have it all at an affordable price. new vidal sassoon lets you say no to compromise and yes to very shiny... very silky... very sexy... very you. it's salon genius in a bottle!

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baked in a rich, creamy alfredo sauce. she calls them her new comfort bakes. marie callender's. it's time to savor. three years ago today, president obama signed the affordable care act into law. detractors dub it had obama care. detractors dubbed it obama care. the high court ultimately upheld it. this isn't about the merits or shortcomings of obama care or lawmakers wasting time. instead, i would like to talk about what it brought out of us. do you remember those raucous town hall meetings where crowds let their congressman have it? many were as rabid as they were confused, toting signs like, keep your government hands off my medicare. but people showed up. some ill-informed, some angry, all passionate. earlier this week, harry reid dropped the assault weapons ban

from a gun control bill that will go to the senate floor. there wasn't enough support. in the wake of what happened in newtown, connecticut, a majority said they would back an assault we pops ban. an overwhelming majority support background checks. about 90%. but so far, despite public support and president obama's passionate state of the union declarations that families of gun violence deserve votes, there's been a whole lot of talk about somewhat's politically feasible. here's a thought. maybe the majority shouldn't be so silent, should concern over higher premiums galvanize more than gun control legislation? the screamers and shouters call an e-mail, perhaps don't pester enough. here's the phone number for the capitol hill switchboard. there is it on your screen. write it down. let your congressman know how

you feel. let them have it. just a thought. marriage in the high court. with the supreme court taking up same-sex marriage this week, we'll take a look at the opinion shift happening across the country and whether republicans are really evolving on the issue. come back. [ male announcer ] it's red lobster's lobsterfest our largest selection of lobster entrees, like lobster lover's dream or new grilled lobster and lobster tacos. come in now and sea food differently. visit redlobster.com now for an exclusive $10 coupon on two lobsterfest entrees.

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[ breathes deeply ] ♪ oh, what a relief it is hey. whassup. guten tag. greetings earthlings. what's crackalackin? it's great we express ourselves differently. if we were all the same, life would be boring. so get to know people who aren't like you. you'll appreciate what makes us different. the more you know. ohio senator rob portman came out, in favor of same-sex marriage last week. but while gop lawmakers aren't necessarily lining up behind them, they're not necessarily expressing their own positions eloquently. georgia senator saxby chambliss told politico, i'm not gay, so i'm not going to marry one. and he's not the only republican who may have wanted to choose his words a little differently.

jonathan, let's take a look at republican governor john kasich from ohio, who was asked ant his feelings on same-sex marriage this week by abc affiliate wcpo tv. take a listen. >> if people want to have civil unions, i'm for that. but i don't support a gay marriage. and i'm not angry at anybody because of this. i just think marriage is between a man and a woman, but if you want to have a civil union, that's fine with me. >> that seems like a pretty declaration in support of civil unions. his spokesman released a statement in part staying -- >> where does john kasich stand, jonathan? >> all over the place.

look, i mean, i don't know how you use the term "civil union" which has this point has a lot of sort of, you know, legal history behind it loosely. i think that politicians are struggling with this issue. it's one of those where a lot of the voters have a strong feeling pro or anti, and the politics may not feel as strongly. when you look at the republican party, you have a religious conservative base that's very against gay marriage. but you have also got an ascendant libertarian wing of the republican party that is in some cases pro gay marriage. so it will be interesting to see how it plays out. you've seen a lot of evolution on the democratic side. remember, president obama talked about how i was evolving while he was evolving and where he was going to get. >> erol, that was a pretty impressive stumble and fumble there. >> you don't see that very often, where they pull it back within minutes.

i have to say, kasich, you've got to feel for him. like many other governors, because they have to deal with real-world solutions and work across the aisle, there are people in his state that have moved in from other states who happen to be married now, same-sex couples. how do you make it happen legally? and he doesn't have politically the leeway to even start to try and address those kind of concerns. it's a real problem for the republican party. >> we probably won't hear anymore from john kasich on same-sex marriage. financial 911 in detroit. what will that mean for students still learning their abcs? and it's been three years since president obama signed obama care into law. so why haven't republicans given up trying to repeal it? that's stupid. you're wasting the best part. shuh, says the man without a helicopter. wait, don't go! [ male announcer ] choose your side at oreo.com.

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>> my child has been here since he's been going to school. >> it's so sad to think that they're all going to be separated. >> chicago. just one city facing public school closures. we'll take a look at how closing classrooms impacts student performance. town halls reduced to screaming matches. that was obama care after its passage. we'll look at its legacy three years later. plus, why this man, i mean, rodent, is facing an indictment now. it's puxatony phil, he's in trouble. the senate has passed a budget, but all senate republicans voted against it. so did four senate democrats. another democrat, frank lautenberg, didn't even vote at all. and president obama will be releasing his own budget in april. "the washington post" is reporting that a lawyer in the dominican republic was frying to pay prostitutes to say they had

sex with senator bob me mendez. president obama is on his way home from the middle east. he's set to arrive back to the white house around 9:00 tonight, but he left one member of his party behind. secretary of state john kerry is continuing talks with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and talking with palestinian prime minister mahmoud abbas. there are new struggles facing the nation's public education system. chicago officials announced friday a mass closing of elementary schools. by next year, they'll shut down 54 schools. 30,000 children will be affected. but the challenges facing chicago schools are hardly unique. many big cities are struggling to cope with population declines and tight budgets at the same time. today, nbc news took "education nation" on the road to detroit. the event is designed to spark

discussions about new efforts to improve student outcomes. this important conversation comes as the city's emergency financial manager starts work monday in detroit. correspondent rehema ellis is on duty on this saturday afternoon. good to see you. how will the city's new financial management affect detroit's children, affect detroit's schools? >> reporter: that remains to be seen, craig. if the financial manager is able to brink the city -- bring the city back of the cusp of financial ruin. that work is just going to begin on monday. but what people don't know about detroit or many don't know, is this city has had an emergency financial manager for its schools for sometime now. they've been making a lot of

changes and because they have been closing schools, consolidating schools and building schools in some other places for children, they're starting to see some improvements. are they big? no, they're small. but people are feeling encouraged because they're moving in the right direction. but it's a controversial move here in terms of the financial manager for the schools, and particularly, that financial manager for the city. that starting on monday. >> i know you just moderated a student up town hall there. what are they concerned about? >> reporter: they're concerned that they get good teachers and good programs, that they get good advice that will lead them into the opportunities that they want for college and career. we had an exciting group of kids here, craig. i wish everybody would go online and watch the student town hall. if the motor city is going to run off the fuel of the kids in detroit and in michigan, the city is going to be okay based on the kids in this room.

they're really positive kids. do they have some problems? yes, they do. one of the things i felt very good about was the fact how honest they were. they said some of them were struggling, but they found someone who motivated them, often times it was a parent. but many other times it was a teacher who told them, you can't give up. i won't let you give up. so that's one of the things that i think is really positive that's happening here. there's a lot of stuff that people are really upset about, craig. but there's some things to feel positive about, too. >> sit tight for me. rehema ellis is so good about education reporting because she's so passionate about it. durrell bradford is executive director of excellent education for everyone. it's a school choice advocacy group, co-founded by cory booker. and eva is a former new york city councilwoman, and we're waiting upon president of the

national education association, which represents about 3 million public school employees. when we get dennis, we'll bring him into the conversation. durrell, 54 schools in chicago. one of the four or five largest school districts in this country. closing 54. philadelphia said earlier this month, it will close 23 schools. the districts in washington, detroit as well, they're closing schools, shutting them down to save money. and some of the schools are underperforming. what do closing schools, what does that do for improving education or do we know? >> i think people close schools to do two important things. one, and it's really important that everybody knows this, all the districts that you talked about, had chronic declines in enrollment for decades. you look at newark, it's going through this organization process right now. at its height it had 50,000 students. now it has a little over 30,000

students. so the one thing everybody should know is this a bill that's come due. and now that the districts can't sustain their operations without consolidating. but on the other side, in chicago they have an interesting way forward. they're consolidating, but they're using the savings to upgrade programs and facilities and all of the newly combined, newly reconstituted schools that all the kids are going to go to. chicago public schools have got a lot of problems, just like most of the other districts. whether or not the consolidation leads to great student gains, we still have to find that out. what's clear is that in all of these places, they couldn't keep doing business the way they were. >> dennis, give me another viewpoint here. when we shut down schools in major metropolitan areas, what do we know about the effects? >> it really affects the community. it's a huge loss when the community closes a school, it's

a disruption for students and parents. what we have to do is make sure we've looked at all of the other alternatives, maybe we could bring wrap around services into the school, save money other places, provide them in a school, benefit to the community and to the students and benefit to the parents. >> most of these schools that get shut down, these aren't schools where -- let's be honest here, they're not super achieving schools. >> that has to change. one of the things we can do is we need to bring communities together. we need to make sure we have quality teachers in the schools, making sure there isn't a revolving door and different teachers every one or two years. we need to bring in the wrap around services. we need to make sure that the schools have the facilities and the materials and the qualified, certified teachers they need to succeed. >> eva, you are a champion of charter schools and that movement has seen enormous growth since its inception about

two decades ago. more than 5,700 charter schools serve nearly 2 million students last year. why have charter schools become so popular? >> i mean, charters give you the freedom to get it right. you're free of the central bureaucracy on the one hand and the labor contracts on the other. charters don't necessarily mean that you will get it right, but you have the opportunity to have high, high quality. >> rehema, what are charter schools in detroit like? what has been the inception in the motor city? >> reporter: it's really mixed. because when they've been shutting down traditional public schools here in detroit, they've been opening up more charter schools. in fact, just recently the legislature here in michigan and the governor signed into law a bill that lifts the cap on the number of charter schools that they could have. some were concerned that they

weren't aware of the efficacy of how well these charter schools were performing. so it's a very controversial issue here, and it also makes some people wonder, is this the beginning of the end of the traditional public school? and if that does happen, what really will that mean for children who may not have the most motivated parents to get them into those charter schools or may not be pushed as much as some other children are? so this is not a done deal, if you will. and there is a large outcry about the move from traditional public schools and more opening of the charter schools. >> there have been a number of stories and reports that have looked at the effectiveness of some of the charter schools, especially in places like washington, d.c. and other major cities, as well. what do we know about the performance of charter schools? >> the results are mixed. in new york city, they're not mixed. the charters are way outperforming the district

schools. i say this as a mother of three children. i have one of my kids who is in the district, who are in charters. i have been very, very impressed with the quality of teaching with the rigor bar. who is being expected of children in high performing charters. we watch what china and india are doing in terms of the rigor bar. and that ultimately a very important solution to the crisis in american public education. >> dennis, how much of an answer are they? can charter schools peacefully co-exist with public schools? >> everybody supports innovation in schools. what's important is we find the things that work. eva mentioned that the results on charter schools nationwide are very mixed. one of the studies said 17% were doing better, about a third doing worse, about 50% doing the same. we're focusing the discussion way too narrowly. what it should be is how do we

improve every school in america. and if we have a chart they are is really succeeding or a public school that is really succeeding, what we need to do is take what they're doing, find out what they're doing differently, and put that out everywhere. we seem to have this problem with campfires of excellence. we need a brush fire. if there's a good ideal, whether in a charter or traditional school, let's benefit all children. >> rehema, i know you have something. jump in there. >> reporter: one of the things i hear from a lot of teachers, even those in charter schools, craig, and i would ask you guests as well, about the sustainability of the effort and the energy that some of the teachers in the charter schools are putting in. they work long hours and teachers work long hours any way in traditional public schools. it does not end for them when the bell rings at 3:00 in any school in america. and then in the charter schools, it goes way into the night. i've been finding out that a lot of teachers have not been able

to sustain themselves into 5, 10, 15 years kind of existence as far as that energy in a public charter school. i would wonder from your panel if they think that kind of involvement from teachers and charter schools is sustainable. >> all right. that's the question we're going to tackle on the other side of this break. we'll take rehema's question right after this. come back. whoooo! you're crazy. go faster! go faster! go faster! go faster! no! stop...stop... (mom) i raised my son to be careful... hi, sweetie. hi, mom. (mom) but just to be safe... i got a subaru. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. if you have high cholesterol, here's some information that may be worth looking into. in a clinical trial versus lipitor,

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and we're back. jerald bradford, eva moskowicz, thanks to all of you for sticking around. i want to come to you on the answer to rehema's question before the break about teachers in charter schools and the expectations there. >> americans are not afraid of

hard work, especially teachers. we just find that teachers are dedicated to getting the job done and they understand the global competition requires a lot of elbow grease. >> do you agree? >> i think a lot of time we diagnose the symptom as the disease. so there's a lot of turnover in schools that are servicing our neediest kids, because they need a lot of help. like the demand of the job is amazing. and so to say that charter schools are problematic entities because they have lots of teachers who work hard to do amazing things for kids who are in desperate straits really misses the point. the problem is the kids are really in desperate straits. as long as we keep looking the other way on what's happening for the last 50 years, that created the situation we have now, as long as we looked the other way at what happened to those kid's parents, which is why it's one of the reasons it's such a tough road to hoe, we're

going to keep burning people out. >> i want to remind viewers at home what president obama said about early education in his state of the union address last month. take a listen. >> study after study shows the sooner a child begins learning, the better he or she does down the road. but today, fewer than 3 in 10 4-year-olds are enrolled in a high quality preschool program. >> the president wants early education available. who is going to pay for that? >> we have free all-day high quality, very expensive pre-k. new jersey has a court ordered free pre-k program for all 3 and 4-year-olds that live in a series of districts. and for all the research,

apparently it's great. but there are few reasons it's great. i feel like the president, in asserting this need to frame it better. it is amazingly expensive. we're spending $13,000 a kid on pre-k. it is choice driven. this is critical. so we have districts and community providers and private providers delivering a high quality service. i think the last part, which is not only about who pays for it, but how does it come into existence, we didn't legislate pre-k. it is enormously expensive. how it goes universal, i don't know. but if it goes universal, i feel like those three things are critical to making it successful. >> dennis, how realistic we'll see this in the next 5, 10, 15

years in this country? >> we need to start now. there's a proverb that says the best day to plant a shade tree is 20 years ago. the second best day is today. the president is right, there's no research done that doesn't show that early childhood works. in finland, in 1990, they weren't number one in the world and they only had 47% of their kids in early childhood. now they have 97% and they're number one in the world. it's difficult for policymakers to make that decision, because they don't get a result in one or two years. if you're looking at what's best for students and the future of america, investment in early childhood is the way to go. >> i think it's really important that people understand. just like charter schools or choice or teacher eval pre-k, they are all part of a system that articulates at a high level. so investing in pre-k without

fixing k-12 will waste the investment in pre-k. saying we're going to give every child in america pre-k is not the end of this discussion. >> i want to show viewers at home per pupil spending. we're getting more children enrolled but spending is decreasing in this country. the average state spending per child dropped to just over $4100 in 2011. in 2002, it was $4,866. you don't have to have a terminal degree in education to understand that things get more expensive. if in nine year you're spending less on something, you have to wonder if you're getting the same for your buck. >> i would support -- i support more money for education, but we live in a world of limited resources and we're going to have to figure out how to do it

phenomenally better than we're doing it. one of the best solutions is to allow for parent choice. parents, whether poor or affluent, have a very good sense when they send their child to school and they come home learning. right now, we have a system where government assigns children to a failing school. and we've got to stop that practice. we have found throughout this country that when parents are given choice, whether they go to a parochial school, a charter or district school, they are able to find themselves a better school. >> school choice is such a hot button issue in this country. i pledge to you and our viewers right now that we're going to have you all back and talk about school choice specifically. dennis, will you be a part of that discussion? >> absolutely. >> we don't have enough time right now. we've taken about 20 minutes.

but at some point in the near future, please come back. thank you for spending so much of your saturday with us. coming up, cyprus tries to avert economic collapse. why this race against the bankruptcy clock could come down to the wire and have disastrous global effects. also, an indictment has been issued for puxatony phil. how the ground hog has become the target of one state. it's in our political play ground. this is a very serious story. you're watching msnbc. [ phil ] when you have joint pain and stiffness...

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bombed the first blank blank with -- >> ten seconds. and five. four. >> we're not sure what happened there. but trust me, it was funny. ohio called, it wants its spring back. authorities in frigid ohio have issued an indictment against puxatony phil who promised, remember, he promised we would be seeing spring soon. of course, it wouldn't be ohio politics without heavy campaigning on both sides. the ground hog has supporters who are leading messages like, we're with you, phil. band of brothers. town halls nationwide, heated house debates. why obama care is still facing such opposition on the third anniversary of its passage. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. look, if you have copd like me,

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two georgia teenagers have been charged with first degree murder. a 17-year-old and a 14-year-old shot a baby dead in his stroller this week. that baby was just 13 months old. the teenagers were allegedly trying to rob the baby's mother. she was also hurt in that shooting. here's a quick look at some of the other top stories. british officials confirmed to nbc news that the russian tycoon is dead. the 67-year-old billionaire was a strong critic of russian president vladamir putin. the cause of death has not been released. he was also friends with russian dissident alexander who was poisoned in 2006. cyprus is scrambling to avoid financial collapse. it has until monday to strike a deal with the eu. now there are reports that the

country is considering levying a 25% tax on wealthy citizens bank accounts. two popes, side by side. pope francis meeting with his predecessor, benedict xvi. with the trust, it's called "the biggest brain." we wanted to introduce an element of competition, because -- no, i'm kidding. here's the idea. i'm going to keep score of who makes the best points at the table. totally unscientific, mind you. at the end, we'll crown someone the biggest brain, and we're going to let them share what's on their brain and give them 60 seconds of free air time here that will go on and on until we wrap them. so let's start. president obama's signature legislation. the affordable care act, also known as obama care. three years ago today, president obama signed it into law. it provides coverage for about

30 million uninsured americans at a cbo estimated cost of $1.1 trillion over the next decade. some of the provisions are already in effect. right now insurers cannot deny anyone coverage for preexisting conditions and according to the white house, more than 3 million uninsured young adults are able to stay on their parent's insurance policies until they're 26 years old. enrollment for everyone starts october 1. coverage takes effect january 1, 2014. also taking effect, perhaps the most controversial part of the law, the requirement that everyone has health coverage or pay a penalty. fast forward three years. since the law was signed, democrats lost the house in 2010. 26 states challenged the law in the supreme court and lost. and president obama won re-election. here's the brain trust.

good to see all of you. we don't convince a lot of folks to come in for the brain trust. >> i'm excited. >> very intimidating. >> let's start -- >> i'm going to put my points on the board, right? >> yes. let's start with thursday. thursday the senate passed a nonbinding resolution on repealing the 2.3% tax on medical devices. how much more chipping away are we going to see of obama care in the future do you think? >> i know that republicans in the senate and house have continued, and this has been really a three-year war they've waged on multity fronts. >> but it's been a fruitless war. >> for a while, there was a genuine effort to try to defund obama care. it's gotten to the found where

we reported this week that even the republicans who are leading the charge here admit that this is basically symbolic and they're doing it for the benefit of their base, who really hates this law. but they know they're really not going to defund it. they've lost this battle. >> i want to talk about this medical device tax. 2.3%, it's significant, because 34 democrats voted for this, as well. how significant is that? >> it was a symbolic vote. the democrats who voted for it knew that they needed to score points with home state medical manufacturers, that included al franken and elizabeth warren. they probably voted for it, because it's attached to a republican budget that is not going to pass the senate. that said, again, for fiscal responsibility, which is something republicans say they care about, if you want to be fiscalally responsible, you have to pay for legislation you pass. >> just yesterday, senator ted cruz from texas led another

effort in the senate to repeal obama care and lost. according to senator tom harken of iowa, this was the 36th time republicans have tried and failed to repeal obama care. i understand the symbolism. but at what point does it become a silly sideshow in the consi? >> i don't think it's a silly sideshow at this point. one, it hasn't been implemented. and it's a matter of, are you going to be true to these promises that you made to repeal it and every time they talk about it, the media talks about it. >> but the media talks about it, it's like poking fun at the ridiculous people. >> they've succeeded in making obama care unpopular. >> there was a study that showed parts of obama care that people most like are the ones that people least know about.

for example, the tax credit for small businesses and charities, which basically everyone approves of, less than half of americans knew that was part of obama care. so the republican messaging has paid off in making the term obama care unpopular, even while some of the provisions are very popular. >> some of the other provisions, the provision that allows 26-year-olds to stay on their parent's insurance, the provision that forces insurance companies to cover folks with preexisting conditions. when you poll people, that's a great idea. it's part of obama care, that's an awful idea. >> some of these provisions are popular, but that involves taxes and a mandate, it involves asking small businesses to provide it. so you do have to look at the whole package. >> when we're talking about president obama 20 years from now, is this going to be the piece of legislation that is most identified with his

presidency? >> well, we have a couple of years left, but it's a tremendous piece of legislation that many democratic presidents took a stab at and were up able to. right now a lot of the impact that are immediately affecting people's lives, a lot of the impact in bending the cost curve takes a long time. people have on the universally insured. we have to see the long-term health get better. >> say what you may about the politics of obama care, as it was dubbed. one has to acknowledge i think a certain amount of political courage, because the president in the white house, they knew that this was going to cost the midterm elections but they went for it any way. >> i would say they had courage, but the midterm elections showed a large part of the electorate wasn't supporting it. so yeah, you can be courageous, but there are electoral consequences to that.

>> the implementation of the act is facing big challenges. there's the insurance exchanges for people to go and buy insurance, expected to be up and running by october. only 17 states so far and the district of columbia have taken up the responsibility to do that. how difficult of a task is that going to be for the federal government? >> this isn't a new story. every time the federal government, congress or the president takes a stab at some sweeping legislation, some huge act like this, there are going to be a lot of bumps along the road of implementation. this isn't the best time to figure out how america will end up deciding what they think about this law. while it's tough to implement and while you have to go through this very onerous process, of course there are going to be a lot of detractors. but the question is, will people look back on it and say this is a mistake or no, of course, this

was a good addition. >> i think a big problem is when you say there are bumps in the road of implementation, there are also governors who are sabotaging by refusing to set up the exchanges. this is a very intentional setting up obama care to fail. >> prop 8, the u.s. supreme court, people are setting upshot at the court for next week's arguments. they're already lining up. how could the court's decision make or break obama's legacy on gay rights? the brain trusts will be back to talk about that right after this. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice. even the inside of your dishwasher sparkles. okay. so i'm the bad guy for being clean. you said it. ladies, let's not fight dirty. cascade kitchen counselor.

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you remember those -- >> good times. >> you remember those, you remember those and we could sit here for another hour and play video clips from those. are you surprised at how far we've come since those town hall meetings at all? >> not at all. i regularly talk to conservatives and republicans on the trail. >> and they're still that mad? >> they're still that mad. if you don't get away in three minutes, you'll hear an hour-long discussion about how bad obama care is. >> at what point in our society do people say, we fought the good fight, this was our idea, but we acknowledge the high court, again, dominated by conservatives at this point, the high court signed off on it. even some gop governors are enforcing it. let's move on to another issue. >> that's true. it's also a very conservative idea. the original mandate originated in the heritage foundation ideas. it's a private sector driven

health care reform. once people see the impact on their lives and on people in their lives not inshurd, we'll see something change. >> the legacy we're looking at is the impact that it has on health care for individuals across the country. but one of the legacies also is that this law was a shot in the arm to the conservative base, right? the republican party was kind of deflated after 2008 when president obama won the sweeping victory. and the republicans probably smartly seized on this as a way to animate the grassroots base and it worked. obviously 2010 was a huge year for republicans. they took back the house and they're still riding the coat ta tails, and i covered mitt romney last year on the campaign trail. he talked about it. >> and it's comical because they know, they know -- jon huntsman especially, they know when you get them like this, it's never

going to happen. >> that's what is so cynical about this. >> i think there is a really cynical way of reading it. but i think there's also a way of saying heritage screwed up. they weren't right when they called it a conservative idea. this is the democratic party, they've allowed the change on gay marriage. >> that's a great pivot. let's talk about gay marriage. lines are forming at the supreme court. those lines started forming down in d.c. in front of the high court. they started forming on friday. if the decision in the case, if it's a positive decision for supporters of same-sex marriage, what is that going to mean for president obama's legacy on gay marriage? >> it's complicated, because the supreme court could rule any number of ways. it could be a very sweeping decision or a very narrow decision. i think the court likes to be with the times. and if the president of the

united states is saying we should not be discriminating against people who want to marry somebody they love. and a majority of the country supports gay marriage, you're going to see more and more alimit of all the different parties on that. >> if the high court decides on doma, what does that mean for opponents for same-sex marriage? is that a settled issue, but is it like obama care and we'll still be talking about it years from now? >> we'll still be talking about it. let's let the states decide one at a time and that's probably the best way. public opinion is definitely shifting. maybe ten years from now, they all will be there. >> if the states decide, then we have patch work of laws where you have folks who can get married in california, but if they move to nebraska, are they recognized there? whatever your politics, there needs to be a settled universal

law. >> for a while, gay rights advocates have argued that this shouldn't be settled in the courts, because he wanted a victory of public opinion. he wanted states one by one to have their people come over to the right side of the issue in their view. but i think that even andrew sullivan have come to the point where they say the majority of americans support same-sex marriage and those who oppose it are becoming less and less politically relevant. i think that we're okay at this point if the courts just come in and decide, and they will be on the side of public opinion. >> a big part of the courts should be protecting the constitution. i think they're not there to necessarily go with the view of the majority. >> historically, they've been very influenced by it.

the case of edie windsor, i think that's a classic case that conservatives should be getting behind. why is the federal government discriminated against somebody married in their state? i would love to see the conservative movement line up with that case. >> we've got to take a break, because we have to have -- >> oh, man. >> stay right. there when we come back, we'll crown the biggest brain. it's the only place on television where this happens. msnbc, the place for politics, and the biggest brain. i have a cold, and i took nyquil, but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose.

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as promised, the biggest brain. this is where one of our guests gets to have a moment. you couldn't win today, because you're new. so you were immediately disqualified. and you were close. >> you didn't let me get my last point in.

>> you are the biggest brain. congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> we're working on theme music and a t-shirt. we love it when someone teaches us something new, the information you gave us about democrats trying to score points with medical device makers in potential swing states, that was information we didn't know. so congratulations. the teleprompter is yours. >> hey, everyone. so it's deja vu, a state trying to ban abortions after the detection of a heart beat, give fertilized eggs the status of people. but in north dakota, there's something different happening. something the opposite of deja vu, a handful of republicans that plan to protest it. she told the huffington post --

>> if the bills become law, they'll go straight to court. not exactly old fashioned fiscal responsibility. as hawkins said, they could fund my child care bill with what we're going to spend on lawsuits. child care? that sounds pretty pro life. >> not commenting on your cop text there, but for your teleprompting reading, that was impressive. let's talk about south dakota, because this was breaking news yesterday at 2:00. this is just the latest in a series of bills that have been proposed in that state designed to restrict a woman's right to choose. what is behind the motivation in south dakota? >> in north dakota -- south dakota also has many bills. they're all sort of coming out of the woodwork at the same time. there's nothing that is going to happen on the federal level.

so all of the action has moved to statehouses where the states have become redder and redder. and they're passing through laws they know are going to be struck down because they're trying to set up a court challenge to roe versus wade. >> while the republican party seems to be moving more to the side of same-sex marriage, abortion is not an issue where the party is getting more moderate or liberal. they're kind of hunkering down and becoming more conservative on it. >> katrina, this is one of those issues regardless of your politics, if you're running the gop and trying to court women voters especially, we know there's a deficiency in the gop with women voters, this isn't the way to do it. >> it depends on the women. there's more women pro life than men. i have a lot of female friends very pro life. so there are pro life women. >> the messengers, not the messaging. and that's a great place to stop. katrina, this was nice.

we have to have you back. >> loved being here. >> that's our show. join me tomorrow. congressman charlie rangel will join me at the able. and i will have michael "blue" williams with me. and don't forget tomorrow, "meet the press." see you tomorrow. so now i can be in the scene. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems.